Are men responsible for pursuing women or can this responsibility of initiating a relationship be shared between the sexes? We explore the roles men and women can play in lifting a relationship off the ground.
Music by: Rachel Diggs, Did I Ever Tell You?
Hi ladies,
I have to say, everything about the way I naturally do things is: 1.) I want it. 2.) I go for it. I’ve definitely asked a guy out, and truly sometimes I’m jealous that they traditionally get to do the asking…. I actually enjoyed Sadie Hawkins dances growing up, because I got to ask exactly who I wanted to go with.
Yet, I totally disagree with the conclusion here.
I’m not actually all that down with what asking a guy out actually nets a woman. I’ve had this conversation for YEARS with strong male and female believers. I’m bound to be ineloquent and definitely am going to step on some toes here, but I think the guy should do the asking on the first round.
I think encouragement (also known as flirting) is key. Maybe that even means coming straight out and saying those scary words, “I like you” if batting your eyelashes didn’t communicate clearly to him. Let them figure it out from there (done that before too!)
But when it comes to the question of who’s leading the pursuit of something more intentional than friendship, I actually think there’s wisdom in letting him figure out just how great he thinks you are and meet the challenge of putting a little risk out in the universe. I think our hearts as males and females, respectively, thrive when the guy gets to pursue, in his own style of course, and the ladies get to feel like they are special enough to be asked.
Hi there,
I’m Kristi who wrote in the question, and since then, oddly enough, a Godly man HAS pursued me and we have begun dating. This is the first dating relationship I’ve had in 3 and a half years, so this is not typical for me.
And I have to say, I still think Godly men should be doing the pursuing. It’s biblical for the man to be the pursuer. The guy I’m currently dating actually did pursue me 100% and there was nothing I did to try and create it on my own. Mutual friends introduced us in a group, we had a good conversation, and the guy went out on a limb and asked me on a date a few days later. No manipulation or flirtation on my part. This is the way I’ve always thought it should be (and still think it should be) but I have admittedly gotten very frustrated in the process.
Now there’s another issue here, in that many Godly men that I know are too cowardly to actually pursue. In which we’re left with a whole handful of super, Godly women with not too many strong men to ask them out. Hence the problem. I’m not sure what the solution is, actually, because I think it’s shame women have had to turn into the pursuers because of the lack of men stepping up.
However I will say, the man I am dating actually THANKED ME (I am not making this up) for letting him pursue me. He told me many women have tired of men not pursuing, and have taken matters in their own hands but that the pursuit is great if it works right. I have to say this is something I never thought a guy would say. And it doesn’t solve the problem for the rest of the men. But I 100% agree that he is right.
Women, don’t you believe you are worthy to be pursued? And men, can you man up a bit (more like a lot) and take some initiative?
Kristi. You are absolutely right. The guy should be pursuer, because you shouldnt date people that you wouldn’t consider marrying. And in response to the video: Jesus should be brought into EVERY part of our lives as believers. Not just some of them. That is biblical.
Kristi,
Way to speak up, I completely agree with you.
My husband was super clear when we first started dating, about him pursuing me and not the other way around. He said that when a woman takes that role it really robs men of something they enjoy doing, being the leader.
It is in fact unfortunate that many guys can’t ‘Man Up’ and go after a girl. Is it a spiritual maturity thing? I’m not sure. What I do know is that I married a man 9 years older than me because he could pursue, he was extremely wise, I could see him as the head of a household and he loved the Lord above everything else. I’m not sure, at the time if I could have said that about most of my guy friends in their mid twenties. But, hopefully these IKDH conversations can put some fire under the tails.
Dudes, you want a lady? Go after her.
@Kristi
Can you inform my half of the species where a biblical quote where men should do the pursuing in the Bible in regards to dating? I’m interested to see which Apostle / Priest talks about it.
The context of Biblical allegories in modern day social scenarios is so askew in this topic. During Biblical days, don’t forget that men also had multiple wives during those times. Women also were commonly betrothed or given away by fathers during trades for land, pigs and “fattened calves.” If women are going to cling to a reference that is mostly talking about marriage and husbands, then why not go down a road where, today, Christian fathers can give their daughters away for Vacation Homes in Aspen?
Read 1 Kings Chapter 1 – King David is about to die so his servants seek the land to find him a prostitute to keep him company in his bed. They find Abishag the Shunammite who lays in his bed with him until his death. The scripture even says that David didn’t know who she was.
Fast forward to 1 Kings Chapter 2 v 17 – King Solomon’s brother Adonijah asks David’s mother Bathsheba to ask Solomon to give him Abishag as his wife.
In the context of scripture, there’s a back story here regarding Adonijah trying to overthrow King David and this request eventually leads to his death but the fact is that the above was a common occurrence in the Bible.
I’m not trying to convince Kristi or other women that they should do the pursuing and I’m not defending guys who don’t have the fortitude to be more up front, but, as Sarah stated, don’t bring Jesus (esus-jay) into the picture here. Comments like the above are Class A man-repellent and honestly sets strong, independent Christian women back to pre-ERA days.
Final Thought: At one point in all of our lives, Christ found us first. We didn’t sit and patiently and wait until God texted or facebook messaged us out of the blue and asked us to meet Him at the altar. We had to pursue Him and still have to pursue Him to be called his Bride.
I very much like the connection you made between Christ’s love for the Church, and a man’s love for a woman. It’s very biblical. (Ephesians 5:25-32). But know this – God chose us and pursued us. We did nothing at all when it comes to receiving Christ. This is repeated over and over again in the Bible. (John 6:44, Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 9:15-16, 2 Timothy 1:9, Romans 8:30).
Therefore, I encourage you to pursue a woman the same way Christ pursued us. Lead her with strength, courage, confidence, and most importantly, love (Ephesians 5:25-31, 1 Peter 3:7, 1 Corinthians 16:13-14, ). A woman that you find worthy of praise (Proverbs 31:30) is worth pursuing, even if that means she might shut you down. In the case that you are shut down, shake the dust off your feet and put your focus on the Lord (Philippians 4:6-7). He will confort you in ALL situations (2 Corinthians 1:3-4).
God bless in Jesus’ name.
“Don’t bring Jesus into it”? Seriously? And this is a “Christian” dating website? How do you define being a Christian? Because to me, living as a Christian means submitting every aspect of my life to the Lordship of Jesus Christ – INCLUDING my interactions with the opposite (and same) sex.
The point was not whether or not faith should play a role in our dating lives. Our faith absolutely ought to dictate the things we value, how we conduct ourselves, where our identity is rooted, etc.
Male or female, it’s worth prayerfully considering who you date as well as giving careful thought to your motivations and goals for relationship. I absolutely think that the Holy Spirit can speak truth and guidance into our lives and hearts and I strongly advocate submitting to that guidance. For some, that might mean waiting to be pursued because it will allow for healing in places that have been broken by past relationships. Our argument wasn’t that these things shouldn’t be happening, but rather that the blanket statement of “it’s biblical” proscribing who ought to do the initial ask, feels a bit misplaced.
OK – this is where I step on toes. Part of why I take issue with the statement “it’s biblical” as it applied here, is because it is my belief that there isn’t a specific biblical narrative for dating. It literally doesn’t exist.
The closest approximation would be a covenant marriage agreement. In that particular scenario a man would approach my father with a contract that included a bride price. Once the terms of the contract had been agreed upon, he’d go away and build a house. Our betrothal would last for 1-2 years during which time we wouldn’t actually see each other but he would send me presents to remind me of our commitment (personally this feels a little bit Material Girl, but I digress). Once the house was built, the groom would arrive at my door and we would march home to consummate things. At no point would we “date” in the modern sense of the term. There would be an expression of interest, a period of waiting, a marriage and a exchange of funds.
Despite the fact that our cultural normatives have changed, we’re not off the hook when it comes to how we care for one another well. There are other overarching guidelines that we can apply: we are called to submit our bodies as a living sacrifice (Romans 12:1), to act in humility counting others as more significant (Philipians 2:3-4), to let the marriage bed remain undefiled (Hebrews 13:4), the list goes on.
Thoughts? I’d love to hear them.
-SARAH
I’m loving this discussion. Thanks all for chiming in and sharing. Chanel here, dropping in to second some of what Sarah said as well as add my 2 cents.
Please trust that we absolutely believe everything we do (whether dating, working, worshiping, laughing, etc.) should come under the lordship of Christ. Every decision we make should be submitted to His authority. The danger is when we take remnants of our Christian culture, various habits we pick up from what we’ve seen in church or maybe something we read by John Eldredge in Bible college, and we mistake that Christian culture for Christ Himself. Does the Bible tell us that only men should pursue? It’s questionable. But I’m open; and I invite anyone to share their wisdom gained from Scripture on this for the benefit of us all!
I don’t dismiss those of you who prefer men drive the start of a relationship by pursuing the women they desire. Shoot, like Jennifer above, I like a man who cuts through the relational ambiguity and exemplifies that kind of leadership. However, I can’t ignore the many years I’ve lost pining after guys, waiting to be wanted. It’s laughable now, especially having found love with my sweetie, but I spent 4 years of college hoping one guy would pursue me. I wish I could recover the hours I spent with my stomach in knots hoping he’d see something attractive in me or the weeks of feeling inadequate and unwanted because he didn’t pursue.
And while I don’t think my pursuing him would have been the answer, I do think I could have saved a few years had I simply spoken up and showed a little genuine interest in him. I could have left a few clues, asked him to coffee, or expressed I’d like to get to know him better even as a friend. Then I would have known much sooner how misplaced my affections were, and I would have known that he would never pursue and either way it was no reflection on my worth.
I like where this conversation is headed. We’re peeling back the edges of our own biases to see if God or culture is what lies beneath the surface. Let’s keep thinking and talking and working it out together. It’s what IKDH is about. It’s why we’re here and why we’re glad you’re in this with us.
-CHANEL
Chanel, I loved this:
“And while I don’t think my pursuing him would have been the answer, I do think I could have saved a few years had I simply spoken up and showed a little genuine interest in him. I could have left a few clues, asked him to coffee, or expressed I’d like to get to know him better even as a friend. Then I would have known much sooner how misplaced my affections were, and I would have known that he would never pursue and either way it was no reflection on my worth.”
I was leaving clues – at least I was trying to or thought I was? Even then I felt like I was putting myself out there. Recently, I just came to the conclusion of, “you know what? I’m over this,” ’cause I was tired of the cycle of pining – “ooh, maybe he IS interested in me” “ugh, no he’s not into me like that, what am i thinking?” ad nauseum.
After reading your comment, I wonder what kind of clues would you have given, just short of, “Hey, I like you.” Then running away like a little schoolgirl…
Anonymous Man, Sorry, but what a TERRIBLE example. A
prostitute? We’re talking about dating and you give a biblical
narrative about a prostitute. I will agree with you that no, there
is no example of dating in the bible. But I think bringing cultural
refferences, or in this case story about a man with a prostitute
doesn’t really cut it. The only biblical reference we have as Sarah
said is a woman being betrothed to a man, and waiting for him to
come get her. Waiting, no matter how long it takes. And being
ready. Just like when it talks about us being the bride of Christ
we must be ready for him to come at any time. I’m not saying women
should just keep there mouth shut when it comes to crushing on a
guy. Women have to put themselves out there but, the qualities of a
Godly husband (being the head, loving his wife as Christ loved the
church) don’t just come after the vows. If a man can not lead you
while you are dating then no woman is going to change that. The
pursuit is a clear sign of that initiative. I also think it
continues in marriage. When I married my husband his father told
him he needed to keep dating me. Keep pursuing me. This came from a
man who has been married to one wife for 37 years. I’m not saying
it’s the secret to marriage, but it’s our character to be
pursued.
@City Chick
You discredited yourself when you used an example of you being married. We’re not married. We’re dating. We’re also not talking about what happens after you’re dating and in a relationship which you’ve also referenced. We’re talking about the ambiguous times before the first date.
In terms of the prostitute, perhaps you were not able to read between the lines and understand that I was attempting to create an allusion from a Biblical/Historical reference to show that things that happened in biblical times do not translate to current social norms.
Men should lead when we’re in a relationship. Men should be the head of household in a marriage. No disagreements here on that. The discussion on this post, however, is in reference to the pre-dating cycle… not to what happens post Happily Ever After.
I think women should meet men halfway from the very beginning. A woman has to show that she is open to being pursued and the guy has to pursue. If she wants to ask him out, more power to her. Unless I am like SUPER taken with a woman, I am not going to pursue her without at least a little interest being expressed on her end.
Robert Blaine:
I agree that women should meet men halfway. However, after reading the list of comments here, I don’t think any of the ladies here are advocating not being open, friendly, engaging, or flirtatious to communicate to that guy that they have the green light to pursue. Let’s get honest here: Rejection hurts, and it is especially poignant in the area of romantic relationships.
I think this falls into the area of “just because”, which are:
Just because someone isn’t interested in you doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world or that their rejection of you is a statement of your worth.
Just because someone disrespected you doesn’t mean that all people will.
Just because you fail or flounder the first time doesn’t mean that you stop trying.
Just because someone rejected you doesn’t mean that they have the final opinion of your worthiness or your value.
I know this is an old thread, but I figured I should comment in case anyone else stumbles upon it.
Women, don’t pursue men. If you like a man, and he’s not pursuing you, it means one of two things: 1) He’s not interested!! 2) He’s a coward. You don’t want either of these things. You need a man that will love you unconditionally (Ephesians 5:25-32), and lead you with courage, strength, and confidence (1 Corinthians 16:13-14, 1 Peter 3:7).
With that said, there’s nothing wrong with showing him you’re interested (I like the tips in the video). If he doesn’t pursue, shake the dust off your feet and move on to other things. If a man isn’t interested in you, don’t let it shake you for even a second – there’s someone God has planned for you that’s 10 times better. Focus on the Lord, and everything else in your life will fall into place (Philipians 4:6-7).
My sister’s in Christ – you are greatly love, and I’m extremely excited to meet you all in our new kingdom. God bless in Jesus’ name.
No middle ground there ay Matt? Either he has absolutely no interest or he’s a bloody coward.
Are you telling me that whenever you are single, you ask out every girl that you consider dating? I know you don’t, but some people are good at fooling themselves. Yes, that girl that you find attractive in church or wherever who hasn’t really shown any reciprocal attraction counts as a “cowardly moment” if you havn’t asked her out yet.
You have your right to handle these things as you wish, and you might be some ultra “he-man” who has no fear of rejection, but I resent that you slandered most of the male population as cowards.
I totally disagree with this. There are many reasons why a man may not pursue a woman that he is interested in. It has happened to me on many occasions. I am certainly no coward. That is a pretty narrow minded opinion.
Maybe the middle ground is something more like these reasons:
I am interested, but I want to pray first to see what God says.
I am interested, but I want her to show interest also.
I am interested, but I am not sure it is the right time.
I am interested, but I am not ready.
Or, many other reasons that have nothing to do with not wanting to pursue or being a coward.
1. You should do all things through prayer and with guidance from the Lord.
2. As a christian, you should not be dating if you are not looking for it to end in a marriage. Dating is not a sport or a hobby it should have a purpose and that purpose is marriage, so don’t waste time on those who aren’t marriage material.
3. Men don’t use excuses or fear of rejection to not pursue. If you have prayed about the one you are interested in and God has told you she is the one, pursue without fear.
4. Women pursuring men have made it to easy for men, resulting in their fears and insecurities.
5. God has not given us the spirit of fear. Women wait for God to put the godly man in your life, don’t fear being alone, you are never alone. Men trust God to lead you to that godly women, you will not be hurt or rejected.
God Bless
Here is an article I wrote entitled, “Should Christian Women Show Interest?” and also discusses whether or not it is a Biblical principle for a woman to show interest or even pursue a man.
http://cjgroove.com/should-christian-women-show-interest-2/
Sigh. I really believe that Christians make this whole dating and relating thing WAAAAAAy more complicated than necessary. Ladies, be yourselves and be open. I firmly believe that if a guy is interested, he’ll make some kind of effort to show his interest. If he’s not interested, he’s not interested. While I certainly understand and can see in some instances CJ’s point about the socially awkward guy and shyness (especially given what camp you fall into regarding dating in the first place), you have to call a spade a spade at some point. We all make time for the things that we care about most.
It all depend on power n tradition. Traditional, men are considered to be leader n in power, that is why it is men pursuing. But the world is changing. In more gender neutual countries, like northern Europe, more women asked men out. American women are still among more traditional. More than half still change their names upon marriage…..
I have to be honest. Up until recently like a few weeks ago I never told a guy I liked him. Well there is this guy at my gym actually he is a trainer and I noticed him checking me out. But for months we have been eye flirting no actually conversation just eye flirting and I finally got enough guts to sort of tell him how I feel. Well i’m really shy around him I actually hide behind things in the gym so he wont see me staring at him or so he won’t see me period. I private messaged him on facebook and told him that I would like to get to know him better. His reply was that he would lose his job if he did that. I was so chocked because I seriously thought he liked me and it has been awkward for a few weeks. Every time he looks at me I look away I talk to him even less now than I did before. I think he is going off my vibes so he is afraid to say anything to me. So in my opinion telling a guy how you feel first is a very bad idea. NEVER DO IT! Unless you are sure he has feelings for you and he is not afraid to tell you.